For Peggie: conversion of a Jabsco 37010 Series electric toilets to "Quiet - Flush"

[Robert Seynaeve]

Hello Peggy,

Thanks for all your good advice on the Net , and for your excellent book.

May be you can help in the following problem too.

I have two Jabsco 37010 Series standard electric toilets ( + one spare ) on
my boat. They work fine, but are far too noisy. The so-called "Quiet- Flush
conversion kit" by Jabsco costs around $600 and is really a complete new
unit, where most parts seem identical to the standard unit. The only
difference seems that the water pump is separate and is a more silent model.
I think that Jabsco should have offered a true, lower cost true" conversion
kit" for the existing toilets, where only the pump would be replaced.

Anyway, I would not like to spend approx $1800 and replace an equipment
that still works fine. I am wondering if I could not achieve the same noise
reduction by disconnecting the built-in water pumps on my existing toilets,
and replacing them by external quiet pumps, which would cost much less. I
guess that I would also have to remove the impellers of the old pumps,
otherwise, they would still make some noise and may end up burning.

Do you know if this is a valid idea, and if it has been tried?

Thanks in advance,

Robert

[Peggie Hall]

Post by Robert Seynaeve
I have two Jabsco 37010 Series standard electric toilets ( + one
spare ) on my boat. They work fine, but are far too noisy. The
so-called "Quiet- Flush conversion kit" by Jabsco costs around $600
and is really a complete new unit, where most parts seem identical
to the standard unit. The only difference seems that the water pump
is separate and is a more silent model. I think that Jabsco should
have offered a true, lower cost true" conversion kit" for the
existing toilets, where only the pump would be replaced.
Anyway, I would not like to spend approx $1800 and replace an
equipment that still works fine. I am wondering if I could not
achieve the same noise reduction by disconnecting the built-in water
pumps on my existing toilets, and replacing them by external quiet
pumps, which would cost much less. I guess that I would also have to
remove the impellers of the old pumps, otherwise, they would still
make some noise and may end up burning.
Do you know if this is a valid idea, and if it has been tried?

It can be done--and yes, you would have to remove the intake
impellers...but remote intake pumps are really intended to go on BIG
boats that have head intake lines that are so long the impeller in an
integral intake pump would fry before it could prime. So unless your
boat has well insulated bilges well away from living spaces, you could
just end up moving the noise instead of eliminating it...'cuz the remote
intake pump isn't any quieter (Jabsco uses a ParMax washdown pump for
this application).

The easiest solution would be to swap out everything "south of the bowl"
for a version of your toilet designed to use pressurized flush water
instead of sea water. No intake pump...a solenoid valve instead, which
makes toilets that use pressurize flush water quieter than most
household toilets. They also use about 30% less flush water and power
that most raw water toilets. Jabsco does offer such a "conversion"
(everything but the bowl)....and so does Raritan--their SeaEra
http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/electric/sea_era.html It was
designed to be an identical upgrade replacement for the Jabsco 37010
series It's about $350 from boatfix.com
http://www.boatfix.com/elec/rarseaera.asp ...and a whole lot more
durable and reliable than the Jabsco too. You wouldn't need a backup
for it, so you'd only have to buy two.

[Robert Seynaeve]

Thanks a lot for the very useful info. I had not realized that the intake
pump of the "Quiet Flush" could be very noisy too...

Peggy,

I very well see your point of going with pressurized fresh water, but this
would give us other problems. My boat is a 41 feet sailing boat, and with
four people on board, and sailing in the Med most of the time away from
marinas, we already use all the water capacity we currently have.

So, I guess my options are limited to:
a) silencing the intake pump by selecting the best one and/or installing it
in a sound-proof enclosure
b) setting up a small pressurized sea water system for both toilets.
Although this can be purchased of-the-shelf for fresh water, I have not seen
anything similar for sea water. And I imagine the fresh water ones would
have problems with sea water. Also, is the Raritan solenoid valve designed
to operate with sea water..?

So may be I should go with a) using a 4-diaphragm pump. I am most
interested in your comments.

Robert

Post by Peggie Hall

Post by Robert Seynaeve
I have two Jabsco 37010 Series standard electric toilets ( + one
spare ) on my boat. They work fine, but are far too noisy. The
so-called "Quiet- Flush conversion kit" by Jabsco costs around $600
and is really a complete new unit, where most parts seem identical
to the standard unit. The only difference seems that the water pump
is separate and is a more silent model. I think that Jabsco should
have offered a true, lower cost true" conversion kit" for the
existing toilets, where only the pump would be replaced.
Anyway, I would not like to spend approx $1800 and replace an
equipment that still works fine. I am wondering if I could not
achieve the same noise reduction by disconnecting the built-in water
pumps on my existing toilets, and replacing them by external quiet
pumps, which would cost much less. I guess that I would also have to
remove the impellers of the old pumps, otherwise, they would still
make some noise and may end up burning.
Do you know if this is a valid idea, and if it has been tried?

It can be done--and yes, you would have to remove the intake
impellers...but remote intake pumps are really intended to go on BIG boats
that have head intake lines that are so long the impeller in an integral
intake pump would fry before it could prime. So unless your boat has well
insulated bilges well away from living spaces, you could just end up
moving the noise instead of eliminating it...'cuz the remote intake pump
isn't any quieter (Jabsco uses a ParMax washdown pump for this
application).
The easiest solution would be to swap out everything "south of the bowl"
for a version of your toilet designed to use pressurized flush water
instead of sea water. No intake pump...a solenoid valve instead, which
makes toilets that use pressurize flush water quieter than most household
toilets. They also use about 30% less flush water and power that most raw
water toilets. Jabsco does offer such a "conversion" (everything but the
bowl)....and so does Raritan--their SeaEra
http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/electric/sea_era.html It was
designed to be an identical upgrade replacement for the Jabsco 37010
series It's about $350 from boatfix.com
http://www.boatfix.com/elec/rarseaera.asp ...and a whole lot more durable
and reliable than the Jabsco too. You wouldn't need a backup for it, so
you'd only have to buy two.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?fno=0&sku=90&cat=1304

[Robert Seynaeve]

Peggie,

Thanks a lot for the very useful info. I had not realized that the intake
pump of the "Quiet Flush" could be very noisy too...

I very well see your point of going with pressurized fresh water, but this
would give us other problems. My boat is a 41 feet sailing boat, and with
four people on board, and sailing in the Med most of the time away from
marinas, we already use all the water capacity we currently have.

So, I guess my options are limited to:
a) silencing the intake pump by selecting the best one and/or installing it
in a sound-proof enclosure
b) setting up a small pressurized sea water system for both toilets.
Although this can be purchased of-the-shelf for fresh water, I have not seen
anything similar for sea water. And I imagine the fresh water ones would
have problems with sea water. Also, is the Raritan solenoid valve designed
to operate with sea water..?

So may be I should go with a) using a 4-diaphragm pump. I am most
interested in your comments.

Robert

Post by Peggie Hall

Post by Robert Seynaeve
I have two Jabsco 37010 Series standard electric toilets ( + one
spare ) on my boat. They work fine, but are far too noisy. The
so-called "Quiet- Flush conversion kit" by Jabsco costs around $600
and is really a complete new unit, where most parts seem identical
to the standard unit. The only difference seems that the water pump
is separate and is a more silent model. I think that Jabsco should
have offered a true, lower cost true" conversion kit" for the
existing toilets, where only the pump would be replaced.
Anyway, I would not like to spend approx $1800 and replace an
equipment that still works fine. I am wondering if I could not
achieve the same noise reduction by disconnecting the built-in water
pumps on my existing toilets, and replacing them by external quiet
pumps, which would cost much less. I guess that I would also have to
remove the impellers of the old pumps, otherwise, they would still
make some noise and may end up burning.
Do you know if this is a valid idea, and if it has been tried?

It can be done--and yes, you would have to remove the intake
impellers...but remote intake pumps are really intended to go on BIG boats
that have head intake lines that are so long the impeller in an integral
intake pump would fry before it could prime. So unless your boat has well
insulated bilges well away from living spaces, you could just end up
moving the noise instead of eliminating it...'cuz the remote intake pump
isn't any quieter (Jabsco uses a ParMax washdown pump for this
application).
The easiest solution would be to swap out everything "south of the bowl"
for a version of your toilet designed to use pressurized flush water
instead of sea water. No intake pump...a solenoid valve instead, which
makes toilets that use pressurize flush water quieter than most household
toilets. They also use about 30% less flush water and power that most raw
water toilets. Jabsco does offer such a "conversion" (everything but the
bowl)....and so does Raritan--their SeaEra
http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/electric/sea_era.html It was
designed to be an identical upgrade replacement for the Jabsco 37010
series It's about $350 from boatfix.com
http://www.boatfix.com/elec/rarseaera.asp ...and a whole lot more durable
and reliable than the Jabsco too. You wouldn't need a backup for it, so
you'd only have to buy two.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?fno=0&sku=90&cat=1304

[Peggie Hall]

Post by Robert Seynaeve
I very well see your point of going with pressurized fresh water, but
this would give us other problems. My boat is a 41 feet sailing boat,
and with four people on board, and sailing in the Med most of the
time away from marinas, we already use all the water capacity we
currently have.

A toilet that uses pressurized flush water uses about 3
gal/day/person...less if you use the lee rail as much as possible.

Post by Robert Seynaeve
So, I guess my options are limited to: a) silencing the intake pump
by selecting the best one and/or installing it in a sound-proof
enclosure b) setting up a small pressurized sea water system for both
toilets. Although this can be purchased of-the-shelf for fresh water,
I have not seen anything similar for sea water.

I've never heard of one.

Post by Robert Seynaeve
And I imagine the
fresh water ones would have problems with sea water. Also, is the
Raritan solenoid valve designed to operate with sea water..?

The solenoid isn't a pump, it's just a valve. The water pump has to be
on to keep the system pressurized...the solenoid valve opens to let
water flow in to the toilet when the flush button is pushed..closes to
block the flow of flush water when the flush button is released. It's
essentially just an electric version of a faucet.

Post by Robert Seynaeve
So may be I should go with a) using a 4-diaphragm pump.

Diaphragm pumps "hammer"...so you could just be trading one noise for
another.

Often, it's not just the pump that's noisy...the boat hull resonating
can amplify it. So one thing you might try: mount the toilet on a thick
piece of foam rubber to provide sound insulation and deaden as much
sound as possible.

Otherwise, unless you're willing conserve your fresh water more, you may
just have to live the noise....'cuz ALL sea water electric toilets are
noisy. Some--especially the Jabscos--are noisier than others.

Or...you could go back to manual toilets.

[Robert Seynaeve]

I think you made it all very clear.

I think I will mount the toilet on a sound absorbing base, and use an
acoustically isolated remote intake pump; I have some knowledge about
acoustical isolation which should help. I will try that with the "Raritan
SEAERA conversion kit- remote intake pump" at $411.

Thanks again!

Robert



.

Often, it's not just the pump that's noisy...the boat hull resonating can
amplify it. So one thing you might try: mount the toilet on a thick piece
of foam rubber to provide sound insulation and deaden as much sound as
possible.
Otherwise, unless you're willing conserve your fresh water more, you may
just have to live the noise....'cuz ALL sea water electric toilets are
noisy. Some--especially the Jabscos--are noisier than others.
Or...you could go back to manual toilets.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?fno=0&sku=90&cat=1304