Re-using Stalok terminals

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

d***@gmail.com

2008-02-26 00:32:32 UTC

I'm re-rigging my boat and re-using the Stalok terminals that have
been in use for 19 years. I put them new when I re-rigged it 19 years
ago. The instructions say to put a grape-sized lump of silicone
sealant in the terminal "base" when assembling the terminal so as to
keep water out.

Well, I did that and it kept the interior almost dry - but the
silicone acts like an adhesive and makes the "wedged" wire really
really hard to get out of the wedge shaped cavity in the body.

So, I wondering about some long-term sealer-filler that not an
adhesive. I've gotten 8 of 8 apart so far, but don't want to go thru
this again.

Maybe Dolfinite (it shrinks). Ideally something that expands when it
cures, is rubbery, not UV bothered, and zero adhesion to s/s.

Suggestions?

WaIIy

2008-02-26 02:08:50 UTC

Permalink

Post by d***@gmail.com
I'm re-rigging my boat and re-using the Stalok terminals that have
been in use for 19 years. I put them new when I re-rigged it 19 years
ago. The instructions say to put a grape-sized lump of silicone
sealant in the terminal "base" when assembling the terminal so as to
keep water out.
Well, I did that and it kept the interior almost dry - but the
silicone acts like an adhesive and makes the "wedged" wire really
really hard to get out of the wedge shaped cavity in the body.
So, I wondering about some long-term sealer-filler that not an
adhesive. I've gotten 8 of 8 apart so far, but don't want to go thru
this again.
Maybe Dolfinite (it shrinks). Ideally something that expands when it
cures, is rubbery, not UV bothered, and zero adhesion to s/s.
Suggestions?

http://www.stalok.com/Info_page_two_pic_2_det.asp?sec_id=1739&art_id=4175

"Caulking use boat life lifecaulk, 3m 101 polysulfide or similar"

http://sailmahalo.com/picture_collections/InstallingStaloks/

cavelamb himself

2008-02-26 02:31:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by WaIIy

http://www.stalok.com/Info_page_two_pic_2_det.asp?sec_id=1739&art_id=4175
"Caulking use boat life lifecaulk, 3m 101 polysulfide or similar"
http://sailmahalo.com/picture_collections/InstallingStaloks/

Sikaflex 291 is my choice.

http://www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-ma-products

Brian Whatcott

2008-02-27 03:55:56 UTC

Permalink

Post by WaIIy

Post by d***@gmail.com
So, I wondering about some long-term sealer-filler that not an
adhesive.....
Suggestions?

http://www.stalok.com/Info_page_two_pic_2_det.asp?sec_id=1739&art_id=4175
"Caulking use boat life lifecaulk, 3m 101 polysulfide or similar"
http://sailmahalo.com/picture_collections/InstallingStaloks/

Eeiiooou! Somebody who actually reads the instructions!

:-)

Brian W

WaIIy

2008-02-27 04:21:25 UTC

Permalink

Post by Brian Whatcott

Post by WaIIy

Post by d***@gmail.com
So, I wondering about some long-term sealer-filler that not an
adhesive.....
Suggestions?

http://www.stalok.com/Info_page_two_pic_2_det.asp?sec_id=1739&art_id=4175
"Caulking use boat life lifecaulk, 3m 101 polysulfide or similar"
http://sailmahalo.com/picture_collections/InstallingStaloks/

Eeiiooou! Somebody who actually reads the instructions!
:-)
Brian W

I don't have sailboat, but I can read :)

s***@gmail.com

2008-02-26 07:51:18 UTC

Permalink

"Secomastic compound is a general purpose, oil based joint sealant,
possessing excellent adhesion and durability. The body of the sealant
remains flexible under a paintable skin which forms within 24 to 48
hours dependent on weather conditions. Secomastic maintains a
weathertight seal whilst accommodating the limited movements
associated with the recommended applications. Secomastic is suitable
for general pointing, bedding and joint sealing up to 20 mm wide.

Sizes: 400ml Colours: Black, Brown, Fawn, Grey, White"

Even after 20 years in sunlight, remove the thin skin and it still
sticks like new, we are using it since 40 years on mainly metal
roofings, I since 20 years on my sailboat, great is it never cures
below the skin, but can not be used as a glue (like silicone or some
polymers)

Henry

Edgar

2008-02-26 09:32:41 UTC

Permalink

Let me get this right. You used silicone as the makers recommended and it
was satisfactory for 19 years although you then had a bit of trouble
dismantling the fitting. But you managed it Ok. And now you want to try
something different and untested so that in another 19 years it _may_ be a
bit easier to dismantle??!!
Your priorities seem quite wrong to me.
What is more, some of the substances that people are suggesting sound as if
they will be even more difficult to dismantle and you will not have the same
assurance that they will work like the one the manufacturers recommended.
I recommend you stick (sorry!) with the silicone.

s***@dog.com

2008-02-26 12:04:39 UTC

Permalink

Post by Edgar

And make very sure that the silicone you use does not contain acetic acid for
the curing process. Bad, bad, bad! You can tell if you have the wrong stuff,
because it has a sharp vinegary odor before curing.

Richard Casady

2008-02-26 14:54:23 UTC

Permalink

Post by Edgar
Let me get this right. You used silicone as the makers recommended and it
was satisfactory for 19 years although you then had a bit of trouble
dismantling the fitting. But you managed it Ok. And now you want to try
something different and untested so that in another 19 years it _may_ be a
bit easier to dismantle??!!
Your priorities seem quite wrong to me.

There is a saying: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'

Casady

s***@dog.com

2008-02-26 15:56:28 UTC

Permalink

Post by Richard Casady

There is a saying: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'
Casady

There is another version of that:

'If it ain't broke, fix it until it is'.

Wayne.B

2008-02-26 16:04:55 UTC

Permalink

Post by Richard Casady
There is a saying: 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'

There is another saying that: "the chain is only as strong as its
weakest link". In heavy winds almost any rigging failure will result
in loss of the mast.

Wilbur Hubbard

2008-02-27 00:45:15 UTC

Permalink

Post by Edgar

Let me get this right. You used silicone as the makers recommended and it
was satisfactory for 19 years although you then had a bit of trouble
dismantling the fitting. But you managed it Ok. And now you want to try
something different and untested so that in another 19 years it _may_ be a
bit easier to dismantle??!!
Your priorities seem quite wrong to me.
What is more, some of the substances that people are suggesting sound as
if they will be even more difficult to dismantle and you will not have the
same assurance that they will work like the one the manufacturers
recommended.
I recommend you stick (sorry!) with the silicone.

Edgar, you impress me with your insight. I too was aghast at this poor
fellow's conclusion that silicon sealant caused the cone to "stick" to the
inner strands of his rigging wire. Simply not the case. The cone is designed
to squeeze tightly onto the inner core of the 1X19 wire and no amount of
silicon sealant could stick it to the wire without the mechanical action of
the cone squeezing onto the wire.

Obviously the guy's an idiot when it comes to any kind of a mechanical
systems. Alas, this is all too common these days of girly-men who not only
don't understand manly pursuits but are proud of letting the entire world
know their abject ignorance. The answer is simple. Purchase a supply of new
cones and don't bother trying to re-use the old ones. Duh!

Wilbur Hubbard

s***@dog.com

2008-02-27 13:48:45 UTC

Permalink

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:45:15 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"

Post by Wilbur Hubbard

Post by Edgar

Let me get this right. You used silicone as the makers recommended and it
was satisfactory for 19 years although you then had a bit of trouble
dismantling the fitting. But you managed it Ok. And now you want to try
something different and untested so that in another 19 years it _may_ be a
bit easier to dismantle??!!
Your priorities seem quite wrong to me.
What is more, some of the substances that people are suggesting sound as
if they will be even more difficult to dismantle and you will not have the
same assurance that they will work like the one the manufacturers
recommended.
I recommend you stick (sorry!) with the silicone.

Edgar, you impress me with your insight. I too was aghast at this poor
fellow's conclusion that silicon sealant caused the cone to "stick" to the
inner strands of his rigging wire. Simply not the case. The cone is designed
to squeeze tightly onto the inner core of the 1X19 wire and no amount of
silicon sealant could stick it to the wire without the mechanical action of
the cone squeezing onto the wire.
Obviously the guy's an idiot when it comes to any kind of a mechanical
systems. Alas, this is all too common these days of girly-men who not only
don't understand manly pursuits but are proud of letting the entire world
know their abject ignorance. The answer is simple. Purchase a supply of new
cones and don't bother trying to re-use the old ones. Duh!
Wilbur Hubbard

Yeah. We've seen photographic evidence of how Capt. Nealbur has used
pliers or vice-grips rather than a proper wrench, and rounded off the
locking nuts on his staylok hardware. Totally chewed them up.

Jere Lull

2008-02-27 10:43:23 UTC

Permalink

Sorry, but I can't disagree with the original poster.

SOME of us expect to do jobs again in the future, so look ahead to do
the job better.

I personally don't categorize silicone caulks as adhesive, but I'm
still paying attention to the thread.

(Personally, this would be exactly the second suitable use of any
silicone-based caulk I might make; the jury is still out but since
StaLok suggests other formulations, I don't expect to use or suggest
such.)

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Roger Long

2008-02-27 11:28:00 UTC

Permalink

Post by Jere Lull
(Personally, this would be exactly the second suitable use of any
silicone-based caulk I might make; the jury is still out but since StaLok
suggests other formulations, I don't expect to use or suggest such.)

I would use EXACTLY what Stalok recommends. If you were making an insurance
claim in which a fitting failure was involved, you would hate to have it
come to light that you hadn't followed the terminal instructions.

--
Roger Long

WaIIy

2008-02-27 12:19:21 UTC

Permalink

Post by Jere Lull
I personally don't categorize silicone caulks as adhesive, but I'm
still paying attention to the thread.

It's a strong and versatile adhesive in the right application.

Jere Lull

2008-02-28 13:30:53 UTC

Permalink

Post by WaIIy

Post by Jere Lull
I personally don't categorize silicone caulks as adhesive, but I'm
still paying attention to the thread.

It's a strong and versatile adhesive in the right application.

Okay, I'll admit that I "glued" our portlights into the frames with
clear LifeSeal, a silicone, but the glue area is immense compared to
the stresses. Those have held up over a decade.

Where I used it to set some frames into the fiberglass, though, the
seal soon broke and nothing stuck to where it'd been without serious
work getting all the residue gone.

5200, on the other hand, is classed as a glue. It's tenacity puts
silicone to shame.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

s***@dog.com

2008-02-28 14:13:44 UTC

Permalink

Post by Jere Lull

Post by WaIIy

Post by Jere Lull
I personally don't categorize silicone caulks as adhesive, but I'm
still paying attention to the thread.

It's a strong and versatile adhesive in the right application.

Okay, I'll admit that I "glued" our portlights into the frames with
clear LifeSeal, a silicone, but the glue area is immense compared to
the stresses. Those have held up over a decade.
Where I used it to set some frames into the fiberglass, though, the
seal soon broke and nothing stuck to where it'd been without serious
work getting all the residue gone.
5200, on the other hand, is classed as a glue. It's tenacity puts
silicone to shame.

A tube of 5200 should last you for 50 years, and it doesn't even
matter if it completely hardens in the tube. There are very few
instances on a boat where it is the best thing to use. Some would say
there are none.

Roger Long

2008-02-28 14:28:26 UTC

Permalink

All boat owners should be required to get a note from their mother before
they are allowed to purchase 5200.

--
Roger Long

Jere Lull

2008-02-29 02:52:46 UTC

Permalink

Post by Roger Long
All boat owners should be required to get a note from their mother
before they are allowed to purchase 5200.

Oh GAWD, I almost broke a gut just now!

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

s***@dog.com

2008-02-29 11:47:01 UTC

Permalink

Post by Jere Lull

Post by Roger Long
All boat owners should be required to get a note from their mother
before they are allowed to purchase 5200.

Oh GAWD, I almost broke a gut just now!

That might be one of the few good uses for 5200.

WaIIy

2008-02-29 01:06:13 UTC

Permalink

Post by Jere Lull

Post by WaIIy

Post by Jere Lull
I personally don't categorize silicone caulks as adhesive, but I'm
still paying attention to the thread.

It's a strong and versatile adhesive in the right application.

Okay, I'll admit that I "glued" our portlights into the frames with
clear LifeSeal, a silicone, but the glue area is immense compared to
the stresses. Those have held up over a decade.
Where I used it to set some frames into the fiberglass, though, the
seal soon broke and nothing stuck to where it'd been without serious
work getting all the residue gone.
5200, on the other hand, is classed as a glue. It's tenacity puts
silicone to shame.

It's pretty wierd stuff.

BTW, regular rubbing alcohol is great to get it off stuff when it's
still 'wet:.

Bruce in Bangkok

2008-02-26 12:46:47 UTC

Permalink

I doubt that the problem is primarily due to the sealant you used when
assembling the fittings as I have disassemble a number of fittings
installed without no sealant and they were extremely difficult to
disassemble. When finally taken apart I found that there had been so
much force applied as to cause the wires to indented the wedge.

To disassemble cut the cable flush with the fitting using a 4 inch
hand grinder; remove the threaded outer sleeve and supporting the
sleeve drive the cable and wedge out using a punch having a diameter
nearly that of the wire and a heavy hammer. Replace the wedge and
reuse.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Wilbur Hubbard

2008-02-27 00:52:45 UTC

Permalink

Post by Bruce in Bangkok

I doubt that the problem is primarily due to the sealant you used when
assembling the fittings as I have disassemble a number of fittings
installed without no sealant and they were extremely difficult to
disassemble. When finally taken apart I found that there had been so
much force applied as to cause the wires to indented the wedge.
To disassemble cut the cable flush with the fitting using a 4 inch
hand grinder; remove the threaded outer sleeve and supporting the
sleeve drive the cable and wedge out using a punch having a diameter
nearly that of the wire and a heavy hammer. Replace the wedge and
reuse.
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Close, but no cigar! What's with the 4" hand grinder when a simple hacksaw
works just fine?

But, you ARE right (this is the second or third time) about the force being
applied to the cone. That's the patented secret of a Sta-Lok mechanical
terminal. It gets its strength from both the cone compressing upon and
gripping the "1" part of the 1X19 while it bends the ends of the "19" over
the nut and compresses them at about a 30 degree angle on the same taper in
the body of the terminal. The sealant is only used to keep salt water out of
the inside of the terminal where it will fester and cause corrosion,
electrolysis and other problems.

I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard

2008-02-28 20:53:54 UTC

Permalink

Post by Wilbur Hubbard

Post by Bruce in Bangkok

I doubt that the problem is primarily due to the sealant you used when
assembling the fittings as I have disassemble a number of fittings
installed without no sealant and they were extremely difficult to
disassemble. When finally taken apart I found that there had been so
much force applied as to cause the wires to indented the wedge.
To disassemble cut the cable flush with the fitting using a 4 inch
hand grinder; remove the threaded outer sleeve and supporting the
sleeve drive the cable and wedge out using a punch having a diameter
nearly that of the wire and a heavy hammer. Replace the wedge and
reuse.
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Close, but no cigar! What's with the 4" hand grinder when a simple hacksaw
works just fine?
But, you ARE right (this is the second or third time) about the force being
applied to the cone. That's the patented secret of a Sta-Lok mechanical
terminal. It gets its strength from both the cone compressing upon and
gripping the "1" part of the 1X19 while it bends the ends of the "19" over
the nut and compresses them at about a 30 degree angle on the same taper in
the body of the terminal. The sealant is only used to keep salt water out of
the inside of the terminal where it will fester and cause corrosion,
electrolysis and other problems.

Stop me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a "1" part and a "19"
part; there are 19 different "1" parts. And the cone actually goes on 7
of those "1" parts, with 12 more on the outside.

DT

Wilbur Hubbard

2008-02-28 21:18:04 UTC

Permalink

Post by dt

Post by Wilbur Hubbard

Post by Bruce in Bangkok

I doubt that the problem is primarily due to the sealant you used when
assembling the fittings as I have disassemble a number of fittings
installed without no sealant and they were extremely difficult to
disassemble. When finally taken apart I found that there had been so
much force applied as to cause the wires to indented the wedge.
To disassemble cut the cable flush with the fitting using a 4 inch
hand grinder; remove the threaded outer sleeve and supporting the
sleeve drive the cable and wedge out using a punch having a diameter
nearly that of the wire and a heavy hammer. Replace the wedge and
reuse.
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Close, but no cigar! What's with the 4" hand grinder when a simple
hacksaw works just fine?
But, you ARE right (this is the second or third time) about the force
being applied to the cone. That's the patented secret of a Sta-Lok
mechanical terminal. It gets its strength from both the cone compressing
upon and gripping the "1" part of the 1X19 while it bends the ends of the
"19" over the nut and compresses them at about a 30 degree angle on the
same taper in the body of the terminal. The sealant is only used to keep
salt water out of the inside of the terminal where it will fester and
cause corrosion, electrolysis and other problems.

Stop me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a "1" part and a "19"
part; there are 19 different "1" parts. And the cone actually goes on 7
of those "1" parts, with 12 more on the outside.
DT

Stop! You are wrong. The nomenclature of wire such as 1X19 means the
following: The first is the number of strands and the second number is the
number of wires in each strand. So, 1X19 is one strand made up of 19 wires.
Modern 1X19 does, indeed, have a core of sorts consisting of seven wires
around which the other 12 are twisted. This core is the part around which
the cone is compressed.

The purist might say a 1X19 is not a wire rope at all for it consists of
only one strand made up of 19 thick wires but it is generally called a wire
rope.

Wilbur Hubbard