Le Tonkinois on Teak: Experiences? Any good?

[Chris]

According the their web site (excerpts below), Le Tonkinois
is the best thing ever, much better than any other varnish.

A question to those who have used it:
Is it just great, or just snake oil?

I am looking for the best treatment for teak trim on a plastic boat.

Thanks!

Le Tonkinois frequently asked questions.
What is it and how is it better than my normal brand?
Le Tonkinois is an environmentally friendly natural oil based varnish that actually does what the other brands claim to do.
Is it any good for boats?
Far better than most, on boats in fresh water sea or sludge, Le Tonkinois is an old traditional marine varnish, used long before they invented the stuff that falls off.
What about Ultra Violet?
Le Tonkinois is highly resistant to Ultra Violet. Its natural materials protect both the varnish and the wood below. We have no reported problems in our 10 years experience with Le Tonkinois. However a sample exposed untouched for 10 years has shown an increasing yellowing. Where we added an extra coat every 3 years no deterioration is visible.
What about using it on Teak?
Ideal for teak, mahogany, oak etc. Modern varnishes do not adhere to woods which contain a lot of natural oils and flake off very quickly. Le Tonkinois bonds well to these woods including Teak, Iroko, Pitch pine and similar if the surface is "degreased" first to allow the necessary penetration of the first coat. It also copes brilliantly with Oak, which is notorious for its own special problems.
What about impact damage?
It has a tough durable coat which withstands abrasion and impacts. It doesn't peel or crack. Areas subject to severe abrasive pressure are easily repaired without affecting surrounding areas.
How long does it last?
Le Tonkinois provides long lasting protection. It does not need regular stripping and re-varnishing, simply add another coat every few years to extend the life.
Does it allow wood to breathe?
Wood expands and contracts through temperature and atmospheric changes, a process timber experts refer to as breathing. The flexibility of Le Tonkinois allows for this where others fail.

[Dennis Pogson]

Post by Chris
According the their web site (excerpts below), Le Tonkinois
is the best thing ever, much better than any other varnish.
Is it just great, or just snake oil?
I am looking for the best treatment for teak trim on a plastic boat.
Thanks!

Le Tonkinois frequently asked questions.
What is it and how is it better than my normal brand?
Le Tonkinois is an environmentally friendly natural oil based
varnish that actually does what the other brands claim to do.
Is it any good for boats?
Far better than most, on boats in fresh water sea or sludge, Le
Tonkinois is an old traditional marine varnish, used long before
they invented the stuff that falls off.
What about Ultra Violet?
Le Tonkinois is highly resistant to Ultra Violet. Its natural
materials protect both the varnish and the wood below. We have no
reported problems in our 10 years experience with Le Tonkinois.
However a sample exposed untouched for 10 years has shown an
increasing yellowing. Where we added an extra coat every 3 years no
deterioration is visible.
What about using it on Teak?
Ideal for teak, mahogany, oak etc. Modern varnishes do not adhere
to woods which contain a lot of natural oils and flake off very
quickly. Le Tonkinois bonds well to these woods including Teak,
Iroko, Pitch pine and similar if the surface is "degreased" first to
allow the necessary penetration of the first coat. It also copes
brilliantly with Oak, which is notorious for its own special
problems.
What about impact damage?
It has a tough durable coat which withstands abrasion and impacts.
It doesn't peel or crack. Areas subject to severe abrasive pressure
are easily repaired without affecting surrounding areas.
How long does it last?
Le Tonkinois provides long lasting protection. It does not need
regular stripping and re-varnishing, simply add another coat every
few years to extend the life.
Does it allow wood to breathe?
Wood expands and contracts through temperature and atmospheric
changes, a process timber experts refer to as breathing. The
flexibility of Le Tonkinois allows for this where others fail.

There are quite a few of these on the market. I use Sikken's Cetol Marine.

[Richard J Kinch]

Post by Chris
I am looking for the best treatment for teak trim on a plastic boat.

Go to paint store for a can of boiled linseed oil. Rub in 2 coats.

Or go to the boat store and pay 10X the price for the same thing diluted
with mineral spirits.

[Don White]

Post by Richard J Kinch

Post by Chris
I am looking for the best treatment for teak trim on a plastic boat.

Go to paint store for a can of boiled linseed oil. Rub in 2 coats.
Or go to the boat store and pay 10X the price for the same thing diluted
with mineral spirits.

Somebody once recommended I use boiled linseed oil on my beautiful new
Cape Cod style house shingles.
Within a couple of years they were filthy black.
I had to uise a solid stain to cover over.

[Richard J Kinch]

Post by Don White
Within a couple of years they were filthy black.

Not from the oil.

[Mys Terry]

Post by Richard J Kinch

Post by Don White
Within a couple of years they were filthy black.

Not from the oil.

From what the oil didn't accomplish!

[Chris]

I know lineseed oil, I use it for interior wood. It will not build
up a layer on the surface of the wood like varnish does, but
soak into the wood surface.
It won't chip or peel, but is this enough for teak in sun and
weather?

[Richard J Kinch]

Post by Chris
It won't chip or peel, but is this enough for teak in sun and
weather?

Depends on the meaning of "enough".

The "teak oil" at the chandler's is just 1 part linseed oil to 4 parts
mineral spirits, in a fancy package. Why not apply it full strength?

[Don White]

Post by Richard J Kinch

Post by Chris
It won't chip or peel, but is this enough for teak in sun and
weather?

Depends on the meaning of "enough".
The "teak oil" at the chandler's is just 1 part linseed oil to 4 parts
mineral spirits, in a fancy package. Why not apply it full strength?

Do you think 'thinning' or 'cutting' it with mineral spirits helps it
penetrate the wood?

[Richard J Kinch]

Post by Don White
Do you think 'thinning' or 'cutting' it with mineral spirits helps it
penetrate the wood?

No. It helps it penetrate your wallet.

[Don White]

Post by Chris
I know lineseed oil, I use it for interior wood. It will not build
up a layer on the surface of the wood like varnish does, but
soak into the wood surface.
It won't chip or peel, but is this enough for teak in sun and
weather?

Why not just use Teak Oil.
I found that a yearly application keeps the teak looking good.

[Richard J Kinch]

Post by Don White
Why not just use Teak Oil.

If you check the MSDS, you'll see that "teak oil" is just well-thinned
linseed oil.

[dadiOH]

Post by Chris
I know lineseed oil, I use it for interior wood. It will not build
up a layer on the surface of the wood like varnish does, but
soak into the wood surface.
It won't chip or peel, but is this enough for teak in sun and
weather?

Teak being used for what? If you have a teak deck, you want it to
weather (or at least I do) so that it develops those nice, rough
anti-slip ridges. No oil, no anything.

OTOH, if it is just a pretty-pretty, and you like the look of oiled
wood, go for it. If you like shiny, use varnish. Either will have to
be reapplied at intervals depending on weather/exposure conditions.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

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[Richard J Kinch]

Post by dadiOH
Teak being used for what?

You forgot, "being used for impressing your lubber friends". Unlike you
and me, they don't properly appreciate the weathered surface. Ya gotta oil
it for them.

[dadiOH]

Post by Chris
According the their web site (excerpts below), Le Tonkinois
is the best thing ever, much better than any other varnish.

It also says it is made with linseed and tung oils...just like other
varnishes. <yawn>

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[dadiOH]

dadiOH wrote:

People seem to ascribe nearly mystical properties to various finishes.
Truth is, it is all about chemistry. Here are a couple of links to some
interesting info about modern varnishes.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00063.asp
http://www.woodfinishingsupplies.com/varnish.htm

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
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[Roger Long]

So is it silly to use marine varnish? It sounds like a good exterior
varnish from the hardware store would do just as well and half the
price.

I've used the super durable, very fast drying, polyurethane varnish
left over from re-doing our hardwood floors for a number of non-boat
projects. It's great. I put six coats on a mahogany base for a model
in one day and it looks like I spend weeks on it. The marine varnish
I've been using takes 24 hours before I can sand it easily and put
another coat on and doesn't look any better.

If I was sure about the UV aspect, I'd use that floor varnish on my
(already varnished) exterior teak. It sure would be nice to have it
dry in an hour and be working on another coat instead of worrying
about whether the guy next to me was going to be sanding his white
paint.

Just how important is the UV, Interior/Exterior business anyway? The
marine varnish I put on some of my exterior trim pretty much
disappeared over the season anyway.

[dadiOH]

Post by Roger Long
Just how important is the UV, Interior/Exterior business anyway?

Quite, IMO. But that doesn't mean the sun won't eat the varnish. Used
to have a boat with a yard...top of the yard needed doing every six
months max. Rest of the boat could go 18-24 months. About half that
without UV protection.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[Matt O'Toole]

Post by Roger Long
So is it silly to use marine varnish? It sounds like a good exterior
varnish from the hardware store would do just as well and half the
price.
I've used the super durable, very fast drying, polyurethane varnish left
over from re-doing our hardwood floors for a number of non-boat
projects. It's great. I put six coats on a mahogany base for a model in
one day and it looks like I spend weeks on it. The marine varnish I've
been using takes 24 hours before I can sand it easily and put another
coat on and doesn't look any better.

The problem with PU varnish is that it will still crack and peel like
anything else. But when you need to patch or redo it, what's left is next
to impossible to remove. It's probably the best thing for interiors
though.

Post by Roger Long
If I was sure about the UV aspect, I'd use that floor varnish on my
(already varnished) exterior teak. It sure would be nice to have it dry
in an hour and be working on another coat instead of worrying about
whether the guy next to me was going to be sanding his white paint.
Just how important is the UV, Interior/Exterior business anyway? The
marine varnish I put on some of my exterior trim pretty much disappeared
over the season anyway.

It's everything! UV actually causes the wood to break down, which is what
causes varnish to crack and peel. Think about it -- debonding from the
wood has to happen from the wood side, not the weather side.

FWIW, Cetol has that orange tone because it contains iron oxide for UV
protection. This gives the most bang for the buck in terms of UV
protection. Clear UV protectants are expensive, and not quite as
effective.

I've had great luck with Deks Olje. The #1, basically an oil finish,
builds up quicker and easier than anything. If you like a satin finish
it's good as-is. If you want gloss you can put the #2 on over it. The #2
isn't as hard and glossy as the hardest and glossiest finishes, but it's
good enough for most people. If you want the boat to shine for a special
event, you can just sand in a coat of #1, then slap on a coat of #2. The
best thing about Deks Olje is that it's so easy to maintain, so you'll
actually do it.

I've been using a little Cetol lately, to see how it holds up and how easy
it is to maintain, compared to the Deks Olje. Ask me about it at the end
of this summer.

Matt O.

[Roger Long]

Maybe you can help with a question I asked here a while ago and never
got a good answer. My teak all has heavy coats of varnish that is now
chipped and cracking so it needs to come off. It's quite orange and
now I know why.

Questions:

Can I scrape it and use Decks Olje or similar oil successfully? I'd
rather put something on with a rag more often than get out masking
tape and brushes less often. (You use brushes for the first coats,
right?)

If I help the process along with a stripper, will I have problems with
the Decks Olje?

I ask because the teak I did scrape and revarnish didn't look like
teak because of varnish left in the grain. I don't want to remove
enough wood to get below that.

It's funny. I couldn't get straight answers to these questions in the
Wooden Boat Magazine forum either.

BTW I'm not compulsive about appearance. Our boat is like a very
attractive 60 year old woman. I just want the teak to look cared for;
not new.

[Keith]

I've used Honey Teak for several years and love it. Very durable but a
little tough to apply... read the directions! It ain't yo daddy's
varnish!
http://www.fabulainc.com/

[Brian D]

The Deks Olje will give the wood the same kind of color that varnish would.
Which means, whatever color the wood is before you apply it, it'll turn that
color of wood into that color of wood with varnish ...no hiding. Sounds to
me like you probably have to scrape the varnish and then accept whatever
color you get. You might try an Oxyclean mix scrubbed into it and let soak.
Chlorine seems to be harder on the wood. I'm sure some chemist can tell us
why. The Deks Olje will go onto anything, but will not soak into hard
varnish, but soaks into the wood pretty well. I put it on the deck of a
boat once and let it go for 5 years (all outdoor exposure, mostly on the
trailer though) before retreating and it kept the wood new looking all
along. I was impressed. I also liked the Deks Olje varnish-like color and
the fact that it allowed the wood to keep its natural non-slip qualities
(unlike shiny hard varnish wet with spray). The Deks Olje wood stayed
non-slip even when wet. No affiliation. I just liked the product.

Can you experiment on a hidden area first? Then commit the rest of the job?

Brian D

Maybe you can help with a question I asked here a while ago and never got
a good answer. My teak all has heavy coats of varnish that is now chipped
and cracking so it needs to come off. It's quite orange and now I know
why.
Can I scrape it and use Decks Olje or similar oil successfully? I'd
rather put something on with a rag more often than get out masking tape
and brushes less often. (You use brushes for the first coats, right?)
If I help the process along with a stripper, will I have problems with the
Decks Olje?
I ask because the teak I did scrape and revarnish didn't look like teak
because of varnish left in the grain. I don't want to remove enough wood
to get below that.
It's funny. I couldn't get straight answers to these questions in the
Wooden Boat Magazine forum either.
BTW I'm not compulsive about appearance. Our boat is like a very
attractive 60 year old woman. I just want the teak to look cared for; not
new.
--
Roger Long

[Matt O'Toole]

Post by Brian D
I also liked the Deks Olje varnish-like color and
the fact that it allowed the wood to keep its natural non-slip qualities
(unlike shiny hard varnish wet with spray). The Deks Olje wood stayed
non-slip even when wet.

I've noticed this too. This is because the Deks Olje is softer. I have
some Cetol on the swim platform steps and edge trim now, and
it's *a lot* slipperier than the DO was.

Post by Brian D
No affiliation. I just liked the product.

Me too.

Matt O.

[Matt O'Toole]

Post by Roger Long
Maybe you can help with a question I asked here a while ago and never
got a good answer. My teak all has heavy coats of varnish that is now
chipped and cracking so it needs to come off. It's quite orange and
now I know why.
Can I scrape it and use Decks Olje or similar oil successfully? I'd
rather put something on with a rag more often than get out masking
tape and brushes less often. (You use brushes for the first coats,
right?)

Actually you can just wipe it on with a rag. You keep doing it until the
wood won't take anymore, then wipe off any that didn't soak in. Nothing
could be easier.

Post by Roger Long
If I help the process along with a stripper, will I have problems with
the Decks Olje?

No.

Post by Roger Long
I ask because the teak I did scrape and revarnish didn't look like teak
because of varnish left in the grain. I don't want to remove enough
wood to get below that.
It's funny. I couldn't get straight answers to these questions in the
Wooden Boat Magazine forum either.

It's a religion to that crowd -- myth and dogma.

Post by Roger Long
BTW I'm not compulsive about appearance. Our boat is like a very
attractive 60 year old woman. I just want the teak to look cared for;
not new.

Go ahead and strip, and use the Deks Olje. It's probably more tolerant
than anything else. Good stripper works very well, and most varnish comes
off easily anyway.

Matt O.

[MMC]

Roger,
Just a question about removing old varnish: do you scrape before sanding?
My varnish work goes a lot quicker when I use a 90degree scraper to get most
of the old varnish off before I sand. I like varnishing almost as much as
painting so will anything to get it over with quicker.
Many only sand, and I don't mean to say you are one of those.
The guy in the next slip at the marina where I used to keep my boat was
sitting on his deck sanding his hand rails one day and I demonstrated the
use of a scraper, even sharpened it for him. He refused to use it and I came
to believe the real reason was sanding alone took a lot more time, and this
kept him out of the house!
MMC

Post by Roger Long
Maybe you can help with a question I asked here a while ago and never
got a good answer. My teak all has heavy coats of varnish that is now
chipped and cracking so it needs to come off. It's quite orange and
now I know why.
Can I scrape it and use Decks Olje or similar oil successfully? I'd
rather put something on with a rag more often than get out masking
tape and brushes less often. (You use brushes for the first coats,
right?)
If I help the process along with a stripper, will I have problems with
the Decks Olje?
I ask because the teak I did scrape and revarnish didn't look like
teak because of varnish left in the grain. I don't want to remove
enough wood to get below that.
It's funny. I couldn't get straight answers to these questions in the
Wooden Boat Magazine forum either.
BTW I'm not compulsive about appearance. Our boat is like a very
attractive 60 year old woman. I just want the teak to look cared for;
not new.
--
Roger Long

[Roger Long]

Post by MMC
Roger,
Just a question about removing old varnish: do you scrape before sanding?

About all I can tell you at this point is that I brush before
flossing. We just bought the boat last year and I averted my eyes all
season and pretended that I didn't see any varnish. Wait a minute.
There were some pieces of trim on the winch handle pockets that I
revarnished. I think I did scrape them but mostly sanded.

My wrist wears out fast. Sanding and painting is especially hard on
it. I'm sure hoping that fellow who said it was OK to use a stripper
that doesn't attack the gel coat was right. I'll probably use that
sparingly, then scrape, then sand, then varnish.

Actually, I'm leaning towards Deck Oje at this point. Wiping all the
teak down with a rag once a month seems a lot more pleasant and that
kind of motion doesn't bother me as much as brushing. I just took a
teak anchor roller "bowsprit" off and I'm going to make that my test
case.

[Jere Lull]

Post by Roger Long
My wrist wears out fast. Sanding and painting is especially hard on
it. I'm sure hoping that fellow who said it was OK to use a stripper
that doesn't attack the gel coat was right. I'll probably use that
sparingly, then scrape, then sand, then varnish.

Just on the odd chance, try a maximum solution of TSP (the real stuff)
in hot water first. Works well as a light stripper, is fast, and doesn't
harm the glass. Heck, the two-part teak cleaner might just do the job.

When/if you strip, tape just as you would while varnishing, just to make
sure.

[MMC]

Know what you mean Roger. When I was not quite treating my body "like a
temple", (long runs in soft sand, tough PT and lifting), I didn't know about
the adjustments it would cause me to make later in life!
MMC

Post by Roger Long

Post by MMC
Roger,
Just a question about removing old varnish: do you scrape before sanding?

About all I can tell you at this point is that I brush before
flossing. We just bought the boat last year and I averted my eyes all
season and pretended that I didn't see any varnish. Wait a minute.
There were some pieces of trim on the winch handle pockets that I
revarnished. I think I did scrape them but mostly sanded.
My wrist wears out fast. Sanding and painting is especially hard on
it. I'm sure hoping that fellow who said it was OK to use a stripper
that doesn't attack the gel coat was right. I'll probably use that
sparingly, then scrape, then sand, then varnish.
Actually, I'm leaning towards Deck Oje at this point. Wiping all the
teak down with a rag once a month seems a lot more pleasant and that
kind of motion doesn't bother me as much as brushing. I just took a
teak anchor roller "bowsprit" off and I'm going to make that my test
case.
--
Roger Long

[Wayne.B]

Post by MMC
Just a question about removing old varnish: do you scrape before sanding?
My varnish work goes a lot quicker when I use a 90degree scraper to get most
of the old varnish off before I sand.

I hired a professional to do the varnish on my boat last year. His
technique was to use a heat gun with a wide bladed putty knife type
scraper, followed by sanding. I've subsequently tried it myself and
it goes fairly quickly.

[Dave]

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 14:03:20 -0400, Wayne.B

Post by Wayne.B
I hired a professional to do the varnish on my boat last year. His
technique was to use a heat gun with a wide bladed putty knife type
scraper, followed by sanding. I've subsequently tried it myself and
it goes fairly quickly.

I had to strip the varnish from my tiller this year, and was amazed at how
quick and easy it was using this technique.

[MMC]

Thanks Wayne, I'm always open to completeing a chore like varnishing
quicker!
MMC

Post by Wayne.B

Post by MMC
Just a question about removing old varnish: do you scrape before sanding?
My varnish work goes a lot quicker when I use a 90degree scraper to get most
of the old varnish off before I sand.

I hired a professional to do the varnish on my boat last year. His
technique was to use a heat gun with a wide bladed putty knife type
scraper, followed by sanding. I've subsequently tried it myself and
it goes fairly quickly.

[Mys Terry]

Post by Roger Long
So is it silly to use marine varnish? It sounds like a good exterior
varnish from the hardware store would do just as well and half the
price.
I've used the super durable, very fast drying, polyurethane varnish
left over from re-doing our hardwood floors for a number of non-boat
projects. It's great. I put six coats on a mahogany base for a model
in one day and it looks like I spend weeks on it. The marine varnish
I've been using takes 24 hours before I can sand it easily and put
another coat on and doesn't look any better.
If I was sure about the UV aspect, I'd use that floor varnish on my
(already varnished) exterior teak. It sure would be nice to have it
dry in an hour and be working on another coat instead of worrying
about whether the guy next to me was going to be sanding his white
paint.
Just how important is the UV, Interior/Exterior business anyway? The
marine varnish I put on some of my exterior trim pretty much
disappeared over the season anyway.

The UV protection is as much (or more) for the benefit of the wood as
for the durability of the varnish.

[Brian D]

I can speak for Desk Oldie. I used it on decking that was out in the
sun/rain for 5 years and the wood stayed new looking. After 5 years, I
dutifully buffed up the wood and recoated, but it really didn't need it.

Brian

Post by Chris
According the their web site (excerpts below), Le Tonkinois
is the best thing ever, much better than any other varnish.
Is it just great, or just snake oil?
I am looking for the best treatment for teak trim on a plastic boat.
Thanks!

Le Tonkinois frequently asked questions.
What is it and how is it better than my normal brand?
Le Tonkinois is an environmentally friendly natural oil based varnish
that actually does what the other brands claim to do.
Is it any good for boats?
Far better than most, on boats in fresh water sea or sludge, Le Tonkinois
is an old traditional marine varnish, used long before they invented the
stuff that falls off.
What about Ultra Violet?
Le Tonkinois is highly resistant to Ultra Violet. Its natural materials
protect both the varnish and the wood below. We have no reported problems
in our 10 years experience with Le Tonkinois. However a sample exposed
untouched for 10 years has shown an increasing yellowing. Where we added
an extra coat every 3 years no deterioration is visible.
What about using it on Teak?
Ideal for teak, mahogany, oak etc. Modern varnishes do not adhere to
woods which contain a lot of natural oils and flake off very quickly. Le
Tonkinois bonds well to these woods including Teak, Iroko, Pitch pine and
similar if the surface is "degreased" first to allow the necessary
penetration of the first coat. It also copes brilliantly with Oak, which
is notorious for its own special problems.
What about impact damage?
It has a tough durable coat which withstands abrasion and impacts. It
doesn't peel or crack. Areas subject to severe abrasive pressure are
easily repaired without affecting surrounding areas.
How long does it last?
Le Tonkinois provides long lasting protection. It does not need regular
stripping and re-varnishing, simply add another coat every few years to
extend the life.
Does it allow wood to breathe?
Wood expands and contracts through temperature and atmospheric changes, a
process timber experts refer to as breathing. The flexibility of Le
Tonkinois allows for this where others fail.

[Jim Conlin]

Among my boatbuilder acquaintances, there is not unanimity about varnish,
but we've narrowed it down to a few brands which are OK. The leading few
are Epifanes, Z-Spar, The West Marine house brands (Z-spar re-packaged), and
Interlux, but there have been a couple of positive mentions from otherwise
respectable people, of Le Tonkinois. Myself, I use Epifanes mostly. It
goes on a bit thicker and therefore builds faster. I have no experience
with LeTonkinois.
Whether it's going onto teak, mahogany or spruce makes no difference.

[Lee Huddleston]

There is a good article about using Tonkinois in this month's issue of
Good Old Boat. The author of the article sang its praises. The
pictures look nice too.